[Domesteading 00170] Re: Discussion reinitiates hexayurt enhancements

[J & D Goldman]

Additional related items:

www.spectra-kote.com  cardboard coating, don't know if it has UV resistance for outdoor use

www.3M.com/amazingvhb   Tape used to join aluminum panels, claimed stronger than rivets

-Dan G.

-----Original Message-----
From: J & D Goldman <jmgoldma at dwx.com>
To: A forum for the discussion of aspects of independent,off-the-grid living <domesteading at sculptors.com>
Date: Monday, April 09, 2007 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Domesteading 00167] Re: Discussion reinitiates hexayurt


>Vinay,
>   A few follow up points:
>
>On aluminum, my jaunts to the local salvage yards have taught me that
>thin aluminum sheets are regularly recycled from print shops. They
>have huge piles of aluminum sheets that would make a good skin.  I
>wonder if this is available outside the US.  Also, for metals like
>this, you might be interested in some of the newer adhesives now
>available on the market.  In one case, the adhesive is replacing the
>rivets used to join sections of semi trailer boxes.  Apparently its
>more reliable than the rivets, cheaper and faster also. Would that be
>useful for your structures?
>
>On waterproofing paper, I'll forward some of the things I sent out
>earlier, and add a few new ones later.  A bit of a shame about Global,
>I don't know what is happening with them.  Does Pregis not have any
>options for you on that?
>
>1)Michelman - the guys with the paperboard kayaks.
>2)Also Stone Container's BlocKit 1220, which they claim is recycable.
>3) Polysupreme.  It's not biodegradable, but it is promoted as 100%
>recycleable and repulpable. Currently it is being used for poultry
>boxes and bulk bins.  Unlike waxed boxes, the user does not need
>special disposal, so its becoming very popular and saves money in the
>commercial sector.  I actually discussed the prospect of using this
>material for emergency housing with one of the principles in the
>company, and there was some interest at the time.
>
>See www.polysupreme.com material made by:
> Evco research,
>http://www.evco-research.com/1/contact.asp
>EvCo Research, inc.
>4200 Northside Parkway, NW,
>14 North Parkway Square,
>Atlanta, GA 30327
>Tel: 404-240-0069
>Fax: 404-816-6512
>
>One of the hinge materials I have in mind is the polyprop batten strip
>and hinge.  I'll see if I can get you a web link.
>
>I tried working on a wiki once before and did not have good luck with
>it, but I should try again. For now I figure some of the people on
>this list might find the leads interesting, so I'd post on both.  If
>your friend Woody likes that, have him get in touch.  There is more
>where that came from...  :-)
>
>- Dan G.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vinay Gupta <hexayurt at gmail.com>
>To: A forum for the discussion of aspects of independent,off-the-grid
>living <domesteading at sculptors.com>
>Date: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:56 PM
>Subject: [Domesteading 00167] Re: Discussion reinitiates hexayurt
>
>
>>On Apr 9, 2007, at 1:21 AM, J & D Goldman wrote:
>>
>>> This link may work better than the .doc.
>>>
>>>
>http://depts.washington.edu/dmgftp/publications/uist04/flexm_uist04_11
>>> .pdf
>>
>>Sorry I missed your earlier message, Dan. It's been a hectic day!
>>
>>>>  I finally got a chance to look at the hexayurt materials and the
>>>> websites on the housing/archit project. Very interesting and an
>>>> impressive level of simplicity.
>>
>>Glad you like the design. It's taken a while to get it down this far
>:)
>>
>>Did you see the folding video? Really gives a sense of where we're at
>>right now, and what the next steps might be!
>>
>>http://files.howtolivewiki.com/folding_hexayurt/
>>warner_folding_hexayurt_clip.mp4
>>
>>(or, if you don't have quicktime, about 4 minutes into this:
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMHACXotJAk )
>>
>>It's a manufacturable one-piece folding building.
>>
>>>> We had many discussions here on this list about materials for dome
>>>> panels.  If you check the archive you will find quite a bit.
>Sanford
>>>> Ponder and some of his associates were working on The Pod and we
>>>> looked at some of the coating options available to make paper
>weather
>>>> resistant, some of which were recyclable or biodegradeable.  Have
>you
>>>> looked into this and does the honeycomb company you are working
>with
>>>> have anything available to make the paper more waterproof?  One
>such
>>>> possiblility would be to use an adhesive to apply PLA plastic film
>>>> (made from corn starch) to paper.  UV inhibitor might be an issue,
>>> but
>>>> feasible. We also talked about some of the soy based materials
>used
>>>> for insulation which might be a candidate for a honeycomb panel.
>>>> There is also some pretty good corrugated plastic out now that can
>be
>>>> a good surface material or cross grained to make a strong light
>>> panel.
>>
>>My feeling on this is to go with metal. A good thick aluminium foil
>>is probably a lot more durable than other options and my guess is a
>>good deal more recyclable and just maybe a bit less polluting (I say
>>that with some trepidation, but it might be true.)
>>
>>I talked to the folks from Global Village Shelters about their
>>waterproofed triplewall at some point and they flat out refused to
>>tell me what it was, and said they had an exclusive deal with
>>Weyerhauser and we would not be able to buy it.
>>
>>I thought that, given that we are giving away our technology for free
>>- no patent, no IP protection - all Public Domain - it was mean
>>spirited in the extreme. They wouldn't even discuss it.
>>
>>>> For panel joining, sounds like the tape works pretty well, but if
>you
>>>> are interested in other hinge materials, I think there are some
>other
>>>> options that may outlast the tape.  One concern in some climates
>is
>>>> snow load and wind, so the building would need to be structurally
>>>> superior to those adequate for mild climates.
>>>> I find some materials in greenhouse technology that might be
>useful
>>>> that way.
>>
>>Interesting. Do you have any specific examples? I'm not a gardener so
>>I know next to nothing about greenhouse materials.
>>
>>>> In addition, here is an item that might give the public domain
>people
>>>> some useful ideas for a folding structure.  It uses a hinge and
>pin
>>>> lock to make an umbrella-folding arrangment which should work well
>>>> with triangular panel structures.
>>
>>That's extremely cool and I've forwarded it to Woody, our informatics
>>guy. We don't use corner structures because the panel material is
>>useless for point loading - it's just no good - so it's all
>>connection of edges. But as a concept these aware hinges are
>>fascinating!
>>
>>I'd love to see more goodies from the files - yes please! - and I'd
>>invite you to start a page on the Wiki if there are concepts you
>>would like to share with people in the Hexayurt community.
>>
>>:-)
>>
>>Cool!
>>
>>Vinay
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>http://depts.washington.edu/dmgftp/publications/uist04/flexm_uist04_0
>>> 2
>>>> .doc
>>>> Popsicle stick hubs
>>>>
>>>> If you are interested in more of this, let me know. I can go back
>>>> through the files and pull out more items that might spark some
>ideas
>>>> in others.
>>>>
>>>> - Dan G.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vinay Gupta <hexayurt at gmail.com>
>>>> To: A forum for the discussion of aspects of
>independent,off-the-grid
>>>> living <domesteading at sculptors.com>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:20 PM
>>>> Subject: [Domesteading 00144] Re: Discussion reinitiates
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 3, 2007, at 3:00 AM, J & D Goldman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The tools are cheaper than they ever
>>>>>> were (compount miters sell for peanuts now), and the materials
>are
>>>>>> improving, with more biodegradeable structural choices appearing
>>>>>> daily.  I'm still impressed with honeycomb panels for low
>weight,
>>>> high
>>>>>> strength and superior insulation.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've been working with Hexacomb cardboard very successfully for
>the
>>>>> super low priced hexayurts - which are basically simplified
>>>>> geodesics. We've got a lot of interest from the US DOD - the
>Marine
>>>>> Corps has a project going to get the technology written up as a
>>> Field
>>>>> Manual, among other things.
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Source and no patents has really enabled us to get these
>things
>>>>> spread. If you haven't examined the designs, they are very
>simple.
>>>>> Cut 6 4x8 panels in half on the diagonals, assemble into six 8x8
>>>>> isosceles triangles, and use whole 4x8 panels for the walls.
>Whole
>>>>> thing goes together with an adhesive backed composite from 3M
>(i.e.
>>>>> 6" wide 8959 tape, $12 a roll, 600 lb break.)
>>>>>
>>>>> It's that simple, and it works. You can even make them folding.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://files.howtolivewiki.com/folding_hexayurt/
>>>>> warner_folding_hexayurt_clip.mp4
>>>>>
>>>>> http://youtube.com/results?search_query=hexayurt&search=Search
>(more
>>>>> assembly videos)
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is the way to get geodesics restarted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vinay
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Vinay Gupta - Designer, Hexayurt Project - an excellent public
>>> domain
>>>>> refugee shelter system
>>>>> Gizmo Project VOIP: 775-743-1851 (usually works!)
>Cell:
>>>>> Iceland (+354) 869-4605
>>>>> http://howtolivewiki.com/hexayurt - old
>>>> http://appropedia.org/
>>>>> Hexayurt_Project - new
>>>>> Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk: hexayurt   I have a proof which unfortunately
>>> this
>>>>> signature is too short
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Now you can even get concrete that
>>>>>> is light permeable so it glows during the day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Dan G.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Chris <bewise at hypertech.net>
>>>>>> To: A forum for the discussion of aspects of
>>>> independent,off-the-grid
>>>>>> living <domesteading at sculptors.com>
>>>>>> Date: Monday, April 02, 2007 8:43 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [Domesteading 00136] Re: Information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey... I'll chime in her to say that I've received nada from
>this
>>>>>> list for
>>>>>>> quite some time... then suddenly y'all struck up this
>>>> conversation...
>>>>>> Me
>>>>>>> thinks that, perhaps, this list may not return a copy to the
>>>> sender
>>>>>> of their
>>>>>>> own post??? Anyway, I'll soon find out <smile>. In the interim,
>>>>>> perhaps all
>>>>>>> y'all (which is gramatically correct Ozark Redneck
>>> Southernese ---
>>>>>> just in
>>>>>>> case you didn't know <laffin>) will enjoy the news release
>>> (below)
>>>>>> about an
>>>>>>> energy.climate event we're coordinating April 14th. Wish I'd of
>>>>>> thought to
>>>>>>> tell ya about it sooner... It would be great to have somebody
>>>> there
>>>>>> stumping
>>>>>>> for the energy efficiency of domes... ~Christine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DATELINE: March 31, 2007
>>>>>>> Citing EPA statistics, "The U.S. emits over 7.6
>thousand-million
>>>>>> metric tons
>>>>>>> of greenhouse gases annually,"  Ruth Reynolds, coordinator of
>the
>>>>>> Step It Up
>>>>>>> Hardy Town Meeting, worries.  Inspired by the National Day of
>>>> Climate
>>>>>> Action
>>>>>>> scheduled for April 14th "Step It Up 2007",  Reynolds and
>several
>>>>>> friends
>>>>>>> are organizing the energy/climate awareness event being held
>that
>>>>>> Saturday
>>>>>>> in The Olde Hardy Gym, 203 School Street, Hardy, Arkansas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The world is already committed to an eventual half-degree
>>> Celsius
>>>>>> (about
>>>>>>> one degree Fahrenheit) temperature increase," Reynolds
>continued.
>>>>>>> "Day-by-day greenhouse gases relentlessly build up in the
>>>> atmosphere,
>>>>>>> committing us to ever greater temperature increases. On and on
>>>> goes
>>>>>> the list
>>>>>>> of compelling reasons to quickly enact a plethora of strong
>>> energy
>>>>>>> legislation, including a federal mandate to reduce greenhouse
>>>> gases
>>>>>>> emissions 80% below 1990 levels by 2050."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Open discussion of this 'list of compelling reasons' is the
>focal
>>>>>> point of
>>>>>>> the all-day gathering in Hardy, which opens at 10am with Vendor
>&
>>>>>>> Educational displays and demonstrations that explore ways to
>save
>>>>>> energy,
>>>>>>> reduce heat-trapping gases emissions, and ensure energy and
>food
>>>>>> security.
>>>>>>> Featured technologies offer ways to increase fuel and household
>>>>>> energy
>>>>>>> efficiency, eliminate waste, and make every drop of energy work
>>>> for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> common good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Town Meeting Agenda, which convenes promptly at 12:00 noon,
>>>> will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> officiated by Hardy Mayor Nina Thornton. Featured Speakers and
>>>> Topics
>>>>>>> include:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Significant Quotes," Ruth Reynolds, Coordinator of Step It Up
>>>> Hardy
>>>>>> 2007,
>>>>>>> President of Save Our Spring River, and Member of the Sharp
>>> County
>>>>>> Recycling
>>>>>>> Center Executive Board, will address the range of attitudes
>about
>>>>>> Global
>>>>>>> Warming in opening remarks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "God's Dream," Reverend Gary Goldman, native Arkansan from
>>>> Texarkana,
>>>>>>> graduate of Henderson College and Saint Paul School of
>Theology,
>>>>>> alumnus of
>>>>>>> Hendrix College and Harvard School of Business, retired United
>>>> Method
>>>>>> ist
>>>>>>> minister now appointed part-time with the Horseshoe Bend United
>>>>>> Methodist
>>>>>>> Church, will speak to the responsibility of environmental
>>>>>> stewardship.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The Greenhouse Effect," Dr. Lawrence Coleman, a tenacious
>>>> scientist
>>>>>>> affiliated since 1969 with University of Arkansas at Little
>Rock
>>>>>> (UALR)
>>>>>>> Department of Physics and Astronomy, has given talks statewide
>on
>>>> the
>>>>>>> science of global warming and the physics of the greenhouse
>>>> effect.
>>>>>> His talk
>>>>>>> is augmented by a Power Point presentation. "Melting glaciers,
>>>>>> earlier
>>>>>>> springs, vanishing polar ice. these things have all happened in
>>>> the
>>>>>> past. So
>>>>>>> the real question is Why are they happening now?  Why do
>>>> scientists
>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>> that humans are now causing global warming and, more
>importantly,
>>>>>> what can
>>>>>>> be done to avoid the worst effects by acting responsibly,
>>>> rationally
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> soon?"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "A World of Possibilities," Sandie Cloud, member of the Board
>of
>>>>>> Directors
>>>>>>> serving as head of the Retail Committee of the Hemp Industries
>>>>>> Association
>>>>>>> (HIA), and proprietor of For Mother Earth Norfork and For
>Mother
>>>>>> Earth
>>>>>>> Hardy, will address the carbon-neutral possibilities of hemp as
>>> an
>>>>>>> environmentally and economically friendly resource for fuel,
>>> food,
>>>>>> fabric
>>>>>>> and building materials.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "BioEnergy," Ron Bell, Vice President of the Arkansas
>Association
>>>> of
>>>>>>> Resource Conservation and Development Council (RC&D), Chairman
>of
>>>> the
>>>>>>> Arkansas Energy Office, Bioenergy Services Contractor and
>Farmer
>>>> will
>>>>>>> address ongoing developments of the North Central Arkansas
>>>> Bioenergy
>>>>>>> Program, the Central Arkansas Biodiesel Infrastructure Project
>>> and
>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> Arkansas Bioenergy Policy Council in the endeavor to replace
>>>>>> fossil-fuels
>>>>>>> with renewable/sustainable agricultural products.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Town Meeting will conclude with a "Q & A Forum," moderated
>by
>>>>>> Mayor
>>>>>>> Thornton taking comments and questions from the floor addressed
>>> to
>>>>>> these and
>>>>>>> other topical experts, including Robert Reed of American Spirit
>>>>>> Energy Homes
>>>>>>> and Christine Beems of Gozarks, followed by the hallmark
>>> signature
>>>>>> action of
>>>>>>> every nationally affiliated Step It Up 2007 event: a public
>>> 'photo
>>>>>> op' to
>>>>>>> stand in support of the nationwide rally of over a thousand
>>> unique
>>>>>> events
>>>>>>> and activities being held this same day, stumping for Congress
>to
>>>> cut
>>>>>> CO2
>>>>>>> emissions 80% by 2050.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subsequent to the photo-op, exhibit and vendor booths will
>reopen
>>>>>> until 4pm
>>>>>>> when the program concludes with a Drum Ceremony and the Award
>of
>>>> Door
>>>>>>> Prizes, including such environmentally friendly things as
>>>> fluorescent
>>>>>> light
>>>>>>> bulbs, organically grown garlic, potted plants, and gift
>>>> certificates
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> ecologically healthy merchandise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I wish to extend special thanks to all the volunteers who are
>>>> making
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> event happen," Reynolds acknowledged. "Reasons why people
>become
>>>>>>> environmentalists are various. I'm just thankful that a few of
>>>> them
>>>>>> had the
>>>>>>> time and inclination to help stage our local rally. It is
>>> exciting
>>>> to
>>>>>> be one
>>>>>>> of thousands of Step it Up participants who believe we must
>find
>>>> and
>>>>>>> implement the ways and means to control and diminish our
>>> seemingly
>>>>>>> insatiable addiction to fossil-fuels. Saturday, April 14th, is
>a
>>>> good
>>>>>> day to
>>>>>>> send this message to Congress."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All Step It Up Hardy activities are open, free of charge, to
>the
>>>>>> general
>>>>>>> public. Picnic lunches are welcome and lawn chairs are
>>> encouraged.
>>>>>> Bleacher
>>>>>>> seating is available, first come, first serve. For more
>>>> information,
>>>>>> visit
>>>>>>> www.StepItUp2007.org or  www.LocalEnergyMatters.info or contact
>>>> Ruth
>>>>>>> Reynolds, 870-257-4596. ~~~~
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "ROBERT VANCE" <naptimeatv at msn.com>
>>>>>>> To: <domesteading at sculptors.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 3:28 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Domesteading 00135] Re: Information
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sal,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the response! No, I haven't abandoned the domelist
>>> but
>>>>>> it seems
>>>>>>>> that I am no longer connected to it! In that case, if you have
>>>> any
>>>>>> idea on
>>>>>>>> how I can re-connect to it - please let me know! I've sent
>some
>>>>>> messages
>>>>>>>> to the address that I have but haven't received anything in
>>>>>> return -
>>>>>>>> including the list itself!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bob Vance
>>>>>>>> mailto:naptimeatv at msn.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Sal Cerda <sal.cerda at rocketmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: "A forum for the discussion of aspects of
>>>>>>>>> independent,off-the-grid living" <domesteading at sculptors.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "A forum for the discussion of aspects of
>>>>>> independent,off-the-grid
>>>>>>>>> living" <domesteading at sculptors.com>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Domesteading 00133] Re: Information
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 19:09:34 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hey there Robert.
>>>>>>>>> I don't know the answer to your questions, but I do know that
>>> we
>>>>>> miss you
>>>>>>>>> over at the domelist.  Hope you haven't abandoned us.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sal
>>>>>>>>> Than
>>>>>>>>> Robert Vance <naptimeatv at msn.com> wrote: The instructions are
>>>> clear
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> post information and access the archives but how do I get
>daily
>>>>>>>>> submissions?
>>>>>>>>> Bob Vance
>>>>>>>>> mailto:naptimeatv at msn.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
>>>>>>>>> in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release
>Date:
>>>>>> 4/1/2007
>>>>>>>> 8:49 PM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>